I posted a while back about my frustration with the lack of shortcut keys in
VisualStudio 7 vs. the shortcut keys in VC6.0. A very nice guy from MSFT
responded and asked that I keep a list of issues and/or shortcut keys as I
try to work with 7.1.
Having been using DevStudio since version 1.5 I'm quite used to the
environment and, correspondingly, very fast. With VC6.0 I could fly very,
very fast and efficiently through the code, spinning off successful products
for the many startups I've worked for.
However, with 7.1 I find myself quite frustrated with a number of things,
including the speed at which the application responds. Here is a short list
I've compiled as feedback. In no way am I trying to be overly critical. I
am merely providing feedback. I will be happy to provide more if anyone at
MSFT is interested.
Fun With Help:
Help uses too much valuable screen real estate and is too much work to make
it go away:
1. It now pops up in the editor window so you can't look at code
AND the help window at the same time.
2. You can't move it to the other display (on a multi-monitor
system) because it's embedded in the Dev Studio window.
3. It takes up 4 windows in your environment (Index pane, Dynamic
Help pane, Index Results Pane, Main Help Window)!
4. When you are finished with help you have 3 windows to close to
get back to your full screen code pages.
Pressing F1 for help frequently doesn't take you where you need to be:
1. If you are on a member function of an object, F1 appends the
full object path to the help search string:
For instance, you have this line:
SQLDMO.Database db = oServer.KillDatabase( "my_database" );
and your cursor is on 'KillDatabase' and you press F1 because
you want to know what it does, help opens up 2 Windows (top left - Index-
and bottom left -Dynamic Help) Index is searching for
SQLDMO._SQLServer.KillDatabase which SEEMS like a good idea but the help
files aren't sorted by that same sort structure! So, in essence, the help
doesn't help at all if you are using a member function! Your chances of
getting an accurate hit in that case with help are nearly 0%!
Important, Frequently-used Shortcut combinations:
1. ESC-ESC in VC6.0 would always dependably close the output window and
put focus back to the code window.
2. ATL-F7 in VC6.0 brings up project settings.
Workflow Issues:
1. After a build fails with errors a pop-up asks if you want to
continue, which is one more keystroke I have to press before I can look at
my build errors. I can tell that the build failed or succeeded via the
Output window... Isn't that what it's for?
2. When the Output window is set to auto-hide and, if you have errors,
the Continue? pop-up box appears forcing you to press 'N'. Now you can't
see your errors in the output window so you have to press F4 to go to your
error, which makes the Output Window immediately disappear. Now you can't
see the rest of the errors! So you press ALT-1 to see the Output window
again and repeat...
3. On a Find (F3), the pop-up box doesn't go away with ESC if you use
it to find something. Instead it goes into this "still active but not with
focus" mode which requires you to touch the mouse again to click to close
button. However, if you just bring up the Find window (and don't actually
find anything) the ESC works fine.
4. Switching from window to window using CTRL-TAB (which I use ALL THE
TIME) is slow because it plays this little cute animation of the window
growing out of the desktop. That makes it hard and slow to quickly cycle
between open files. If you want to move quickly, DevStudio gets behind and
you end up waiting.... And I'm using a dual processor, 2.8 GHz, 2 gigs
memory with a screaming video card..... Try it on VC6 as a comparison.
That was snappy.
5. I've mentioned this before but man is it irritating - ESC-ESC used
to ALWAYS hide the Output window (if it was showing) and put the cursor into
the current code window.
More Output Window Follies:
1. Say you have an error in your code when compiling. Your cursor is
in the Output window and you press F4 to go to the error in the code. Dev
Studio opens the file and puts the cursor on the line with the error.
However, it's hidden by the Output window (instead of being centered, like
it is in VC6.) So now to view an error I have to press F4 using the
keyboard, now using the mouse I have to go and shut the Output window, look
at the error. Now I have to re-open the Output window to see my next
error.. rinse... repeat. Frustration.
2. The Output window, in general, behaves like it's non-deterministic.
Sometimes it covers the whole bottom of the screen, sometimes only under the
code window. Sometimes it disappears. Sometimes it disappears quickly,
sometimes it takes a while. It really seems to have a mind of its own. It
will disappear while you are building, which is exactly when you want to
Output window to be visible (so you can see if you have any build errors!)
Remember, the reason someone is using DevStudio is to write code. They want
to see the code, as much as possible, as frequently as possible. It's all
about the code.
Anything that causes extra keystrokes or anything that causes a developer to
move his hands from the keyboard to the mouse (or from the mouse to the
keyboard) is getting in the way of writing code.
Any window that covers up the code is in the way - it's that simple. Keep
it really easy to get rid of the window that is in the way (i.e. ESC-ESC
with the Output window)
cheers,
Chris
thumperj at mind spring dot com
Rob - 15 Aug 2005 17:56 GMT
I have also been very frustrated with the lack of 7.1's configurability. We
generally write what we consider to be small C/C++ programs (3000 lines or
less). In addition to the previous comments I would have to also list:
1 - Slow and unresponsive project startup. 7.1 program startup usually
takes about 10 seconds to start (even more if first start after a system
reboot) and during about 5 seconds of that the operating system is very
unresponsive. In contrast, VS6 program startup may take from 1 to 5 seconds
for startup and we never experience any system instability. Just to note I
personally have an AMD Athlon XP 2400 with 512Mb of DDR RAM.
2 - Slow and unresponsive while running. Sometimes 7.1 is very unresposive
while performing certain tasks. For example performing a "Go to Definition"
of a variable or function in VS6 after the program has just started is
relatively quick (most times no more than 1 second). In VS.Net this process
seems to take up to a few seconds, during which the devenv.exe program
becomes totally unresponsive.
Lastly, I would would like to say that the lack of the ability for F4 to
toggle through the Find in Files results after a file search is performed and
the sluggish responsiveness are the two reasons why I continue to prefer and
use Visual Studio 6 over Visual Studio .NET.
Christof - 17 Aug 2005 16:06 GMT
I share the same frustration and cannot believe, that MS really did thi
step back.
I had been swimming like a fish in the VC6-IDE, now I'm stumblin
round, permanently changing from keyboard to mouse and back
permanently looking for the information instead of getting i
presented.
What I have to complain additional to your items is the loss of som
browsing-capabilities. E.g. the display of derived classes... where is
it gone????
And: the ability to setup fonts has changed and is limited now (e.g
sys-fixed is not possible for the project-folder-window).
The reason for that I need to upgrade from VC6 to VS.NET is the muc
more compliant C++-Compiler.
If I had a receipt of how to integrate the C++7.1-engine and Librarie
into the good old VC6-IDE, I would be happy.
Does anyone have a solution for that?
Thanks
Christo
--
Christo
Chris - 18 Aug 2005 22:00 GMT
> I share the same frustration and cannot believe, that MS really did this
> step back.
> I had been swimming like a fish in the VC6-IDE, now I'm stumbling
> round, permanently changing from keyboard to mouse and back,
> permanently looking for the information instead of getting it
> presented.
I'm really pleased to read that I'm not the only person who feels this way.
I've been beat up on numerous occasions because of my resistance to change
from 6.0. However, I contend that 6.0 is just a better environment for the
reasons I enumerated in my first post.
As I alluded to, a while back I posted regarding keyboard shortcuts and a
nice guy from MSFT responded with interest. I'm really hoping that he is
still monitoring this group. I've tried to make my critiques as specific as
possible in order to facilitate improvements.
It pains me a great deal knowing that I am being forced by MSFT to move to
7.1 and I'll have to eat these sour apples daily. Maybe, maybe MSFT will
hear our cries and fix the issues.
Chris
thumperj at mind spring dot com
Kaz - 19 Aug 2005 01:20 GMT
I strongly agree with you. In my point of view, new IDE is a "mouse
compiler" which is good for begginers. But if you are experienced VC 6.0
programmer, you are in a big trouble.
The F4 problem is the the worst, but also "Windows" dialog cause errors. I
often swich windows using Alt-W-W or other key combination. But when you
choose the window and press Enter on the window list, nothing happens.
Default button is "Close window" instead of "OK". Who wrote such horrible
IDE ?
Next, is there a method of changing toolbar buttons to the simple pictures
like in VS2003 ?
The new view is funny at first glance, but it is not funny when you have a
work to do.
When you draw a picture or dialog, you use the mouse. When you are typing
text, you use the keyboard. It's frustrating to switch between mouse and
keyboard thousands times per hour. It slows down the work speed. Who will
pay for my time ?
It's interesting if Microsoft have plans to make IDE for experienced
programmers which use keyboard for coding - not mouse. Maybe they should
make an upgrade for MSVC 6.0 with the new compiler and old IDE.
Kaz
| > I share the same frustration and cannot believe, that MS really did this
| > step back.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
|
| thumperj at mind spring dot com
BobF - 19 Aug 2005 12:04 GMT
> When you draw a picture or dialog, you use the mouse. When you are typing
> text, you use the keyboard. It's frustrating to switch between mouse and
> keyboard thousands times per hour. It slows down the work speed. Who will
> pay for my time ?
M$ is simply trying to help prevent CTS ;-)
Sergey M - 17 Aug 2005 17:21 GMT
Chris,
> Anything that causes extra keystrokes or anything that causes a
> developer to
> move his hands from the keyboard to the mouse (or from the mouse to
> the
> keyboard) is getting in the way of writing code.
Agree. That's what prompted DPack development in the first place. I
think you'll find two of DPack's deatures, File Browser and Code
Browser, most helpful as they are all about keyboard and getting to
file or member as quickly as possible.
Hope this helps.

Signature
Sergey Mishkovskiy
http://www.usysware.com/dpack/ - DPack - free VS.NET add-ons
http://www.usysware.com/blog/
bugmenot - 28 Aug 2005 01:03 GMT
Have you tried using the resource editor yet? Holy cow that thing is
steaming pile o' crap
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bugmeno