.NET Forum / Visual Studio.NET / IDE / February 2004
gcc/vi better than VS
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Rudy Ray Moore - 13 Feb 2004 20:06 GMT Here is one thing I like better about using gcc/vi over visual studio:
When compiling or linking with gcc, the text editor (vi) never locks up.
However, when compiling/linking with visual studio, sometimes the text editor locks up and I have to wait for cl.exe or link.exe to finish whatever it's going to get control of my editor again. :(
gcc/vi proves that it is possible to edit text while compiling, so I have to ask the question: Why does visual studio not let me edit text while compiling?
I've seen this behavior on VS6 and VS7.1
Thore Karlsen [MVP DX] - 13 Feb 2004 20:13 GMT >Here is one thing I like better about using gcc/vi over visual studio: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I've seen this behavior on VS6 and VS7.1 Ah, another good reason why I should continue using Vim with VS instead of the built in editor. :)
 Signature Be seeing you.
Saradhi - 16 Feb 2004 05:50 GMT One cant compare different products. Also there is no use if you want to type soemthing while compiling. I cant understand the reason why you want to add more code while compiling. Here is one thing I like better about using gcc/vi over visual studio:
When compiling or linking with gcc, the text editor (vi) never locks up.
However, when compiling/linking with visual studio, sometimes the text editor locks up and I have to wait for cl.exe or link.exe to finish whatever it's going to get control of my editor again. :(
gcc/vi proves that it is possible to edit text while compiling, so I have to ask the question: Why does visual studio not let me edit text while compiling?
I've seen this behavior on VS6 and VS7.1
Thore Karlsen [MVP DX] - 16 Feb 2004 14:12 GMT > One cant compare different products. > Also there is no use if you want to type soemthing while compiling. > I cant understand the reason why you want to add more code while compiling. Compiling can take a long time. What else should you do while you wait? Take a nap?
 Signature Be seeing you.
Rudy Ray Moore - 16 Feb 2004 18:56 GMT The purpose for comparing the products was to prove that it is possible for a computer to edit text and compile at the same time.
VS doesn't let people type and compile at the same time . This is not because "there is not use to type something while compiling." The real reason is because VS was written without care being taken into ensuring that different components don't unnecessarily block others' functionality.
Unfortunately, I believe that this is so fundamental a flaw in the way VS was created, that there is no hope in it being fixed.
I find it ironic that the simpler approach (vi and gcc on seperate processes) works better than the "fancy expensive IDE" in this regard. (In other regards, like debugging, VS wins hands down.)
Rudy
> One cant compare different products. > Also there is no use if you want to type soemthing > while compiling. > I cant understand the reason why you want to add more > code while compiling. Saradhi - 23 Feb 2004 11:11 GMT It is not required to prove that to edit text and compile at the same time using a computer.
Compiling means compiling and checking whatever you typed so far for syntaxing & syntactical errors. Both are two processes and compilation depends on what you typed so far and hence it is restricted not to type while ehcking the correctness of what you typed so far.
Thats the main reason behind this architecture. Again, its not a bug. Its the functionality.
And coming to your comparision of vi/gcc to VS IDE, Both vi and gcc are seperate applications where as typing and compiling are two seperate processes embedded in a single application (VS IDE). If Process B (Compiling) depends on Process A (Typing) , its always better to restrict Process A while Process B is running. Its the design VS follows.
Hope this clears your doubt.
The purpose for comparing the products was to prove that it is possible for a computer to edit text and compile at the same time.
VS doesn't let people type and compile at the same time . This is not because "there is not use to type something while compiling." The real reason is because VS was written without care being taken into ensuring that different components don't unnecessarily block others' functionality.
Unfortunately, I believe that this is so fundamental a flaw in the way VS was created, that there is no hope in it being fixed.
I find it ironic that the simpler approach (vi and gcc on seperate processes) works better than the "fancy expensive IDE" in this regard. (In other regards, like debugging, VS wins hands down.)
Rudy
"Saradhi" wrote > One cant compare different products. > Also there is no use if you want to type soemthing > while compiling. > I cant understand the reason why you want to add more > code while compiling.
Rudy Ray Moore - 23 Feb 2004 18:59 GMT Microsoft did not intentionally disable the text editor in Visual Studio while compiling. I know this because sometimes you can type in the editor while it is compiling and sometimes you cannot. As a matter of fact, most of the time you can type while compiling. It is the occasional lock up that last a few seconds that is annoying.
The editor is blocked during the final phase of creating the .obj file, just before it is written to disk. I believe this is due to poor use of semaphores on the part of the VS IDE developers.
It is not required to prove that to edit text and compile at the same time using a computer.
Compiling means compiling and checking whatever you typed so far for syntaxing & syntactical errors. Both are two processes and compilation depends on what you typed so far and hence it is restricted not to type while ehcking the correctness of what you typed so far.
Thats the main reason behind this architecture. Again, its not a bug. Its the functionality.
And coming to your comparision of vi/gcc to VS IDE, Both vi and gcc are seperate applications where as typing and compiling are two seperate processes embedded in a single application (VS IDE). If Process B (Compiling) depends on Process A (Typing) , its always better to restrict Process A while Process B is running. Its the design VS follows.
Hope this clears your doubt.
"Rudy Ray Moore" <rudymoore@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e8Qx26L9DHA.696@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
The purpose for comparing the products was to prove that it is possible for a computer to edit text and compile at the same time.
VS doesn't let people type and compile at the same time . This is not because "there is not use to type something while compiling." The real reason is because VS was written without care being taken into ensuring that different components don't unnecessarily block others' functionality.
Unfortunately, I believe that this is so fundamental a flaw in the way VS was created, that there is no hope in it being fixed.
I find it ironic that the simpler approach (vi and gcc on seperate processes) works better than the "fancy expensive IDE" in this regard. (In other regards, like debugging, VS wins hands down.)
Rudy
"Saradhi" wrote > One cant compare different products. > Also there is no use if you want to type soemthing > while compiling. > I cant understand the reason why you want to add more > code while compiling.
Saradhi - 24 Feb 2004 04:57 GMT I am not a VS IDE develoepr and hence cant say whther it is intentinal or not.
What I told earlier was typing and compilimg are the two seperate process embedded ina single application and hence this problem is arising. May eb you are right, somethign to do with the programming. But I dont see any reason in the need that one want to type something while compiling.
Microsoft did not intentionally disable the text editor in Visual Studio while compiling. I know this because sometimes you can type in the editor while it is compiling and sometimes you cannot. As a matter of fact, most of the time you can type while compiling. It is the occasional lock up that last a few seconds that is annoying.
The editor is blocked during the final phase of creating the .obj file, just before it is written to disk. I believe this is due to poor use of semaphores on the part of the VS IDE developers.
"Saradhi" <upadrasta@inooga.com> wrote in message news:%23lpPq2f%23DHA.2524@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... It is not required to prove that to edit text and compile at the same time using a computer.
Compiling means compiling and checking whatever you typed so far for syntaxing & syntactical errors. Both are two processes and compilation depends on what you typed so far and hence it is restricted not to type while ehcking the correctness of what you typed so far.
Thats the main reason behind this architecture. Again, its not a bug. Its the functionality.
And coming to your comparision of vi/gcc to VS IDE, Both vi and gcc are seperate applications where as typing and compiling are two seperate processes embedded in a single application (VS IDE). If Process B (Compiling) depends on Process A (Typing) , its always better to restrict Process A while Process B is running. Its the design VS follows.
Hope this clears your doubt.
"Rudy Ray Moore" <rudymoore@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e8Qx26L9DHA.696@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
The purpose for comparing the products was to prove that it is possible for a computer to edit text and compile at the same time.
VS doesn't let people type and compile at the same time . This is not because "there is not use to type something while compiling." The real reason is because VS was written without care being taken into ensuring that different components don't unnecessarily block others' functionality.
Unfortunately, I believe that this is so fundamental a flaw in the way VS was created, that there is no hope in it being fixed.
I find it ironic that the simpler approach (vi and gcc on seperate processes) works better than the "fancy expensive IDE" in this regard. (In other regards, like debugging, VS wins hands down.)
Rudy
"Saradhi" wrote > One cant compare different products. > Also there is no use if you want to type soemthing > while compiling. > I cant understand the reason why you want to add more > code while compiling.
Thore Karlsen [MVP DX] - 24 Feb 2004 05:02 GMT > I am not a VS IDE develoepr and hence cant say whther it is intentinal or not. > > What I told earlier was typing and compilimg are the two seperate process embedded ina single application and hence this problem is arising. > May eb you are right, somethign to do with the programming. > But I dont see any reason in the need that one want to type something while compiling. Just because you don't see a need for it doesn't mean it's not needed/wanted.
 Signature Be seeing you.
Saradhi - 24 Feb 2004 06:30 GMT I never said its not needed or not wanted by others. I explained my opinion about whether it is neeeded or not.
MS has decided that its not needed and hence they designed VS IDE it as it is. I think one of MS people should answer to this thread about the design decision they have taken and the reason behind it.
Sometimes they keeps quite to encourage more and more Arguments. Better to stop these arguments by explaining the actual reason behind this behaviour.
Come On guys, wake up and explain.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:27:22 +0530, "Saradhi" <upadrasta@inooga.com> wrote:
> I am not a VS IDE develoepr and hence cant say whther it is intentinal or not. > > What I told earlier was typing and compilimg are the two seperate process embedded ina single application and hence this problem is arising. > May eb you are right, somethign to do with the programming. > But I dont see any reason in the need that one want to type something while compiling.
Just because you don't see a need for it doesn't mean it's not needed/wanted.
-- Be seeing you.
Star Fleet Admiral Q - 23 Feb 2004 02:45 GMT You are comparing a Command Line product versus a GUI product - apples to oranges. You need to compare vi/gcc to notepad/cl.exe or KDE GUI developer tools to VS - I use both supporting both Windows, Linux and AIX machines, and the GUI interfaces all have the same restrictions by design, not a bug. I guess you've never been bit by compiling a large application for 30-60 minutes just to have it die because you saved the code you were editing and the thought process (code) was incomplete.
> Here is one thing I like better about using gcc/vi over visual studio: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I've seen this behavior on VS6 and VS7.1 Rudy Ray Moore - 23 Feb 2004 19:03 GMT > You are comparing a Command Line product versus a GUI product Although my subject seems to indicate otherwise, the purpose of my post was not to compare a command line product with a gui product.
The purpose is to bitch and moan about the editor occasionally locking up for few seconds while compiling. This lock up seems to happen right before the .obj is written to disk. I believe this is due to a unnecessary locking of a semaphore on the part of the VS IDE team.
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