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.NET Forum / Visual Studio.NET / General / July 2004

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Whats up with "whidbey" & "orcas"

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Hareth - 02 Jul 2004 16:31 GMT
I went to http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/productinfo/roadmap.aspx

nice info, but.....I'm confused here......

Why so many VS? why not integrate the functionality of orcas into Whidbey?

better yet, why not just drop Whidbey......

It seems like MS just wants to make money by putting non stop products out
in the market...

How can they update a product if it didn't even release yet?

Someone is on the Wa-Wee juice

Hareth
Mark Fitzpatrick - 02 Jul 2004 21:53 GMT
This is typical product lifecycle stuff. There is only so much development
that can be done at any given time. At some point throwing additional
resources at a product doesn't work so you have to plan carefully.  MS is
just letting developers know what is coming down the pipeline. A new version
of a developer tool every two years is not out of the ordinary especially
when the technology has already progressed a couple years beyond the product
by the time it comes out. Intel has a roadmap that goes out close to twenty
years, though only four or five of that is available to the public.
Basically though, it boils down to the fact that the Orcas technology is
four years away. By that point in time VS 2003 is way past it's prime and
users have already moved to other development tools such as those from
Borland because Borland upgrades their tools every year or two (heck,
Borland's JBuilder is on version 10, and Java hasn't even been out for 7 or
8 years yet).

       Mark Fitzpatrick
       Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

> I went to http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/productinfo/roadmap.aspx
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Hareth
Chua Wen Ching - 03 Jul 2004 14:08 GMT
Hi Hareth,

I totally agree with Mark.

List down all possible features - initial planning - blueprint

1st year, i release a couple of features of product build 1000.
2nd year, release next builld better features and improves on the build 1000.
move on...

I think orcas will reduce 100% coding. I think so. Please correct me if i am wrong. As i foresee, in visual studio 2005, things are much easier and less coding. This is amazing.

When orcas comes in, no more developer but software architects. Coz everyone can do coding, but not everyone can design good system.

Just my 2 cents. Correct me if i am wrong. Thanks.
Signature

Regards,
Chua Wen Ching :)

> This is typical product lifecycle stuff. There is only so much development
> that can be done at any given time. At some point throwing additional
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> >
> > Hareth
DM McGowan II - 05 Jul 2004 23:25 GMT
In the Navy, we had a saying regarding opinions... :)

Anyone who claims to be able to architect anything, should have started out
building. Not everyone can code, and anyone who designs systems but can't
code is nearly useless.

Orcas, by any other name, smells like CASE. Eliminate 100% of the coding?
Nope. You can reduce a large part of a manufacturing process to robotics,
the software industry has dynamics unlike any other and regularly defies
similar attempts.

Regarding OP, I agree that having individual VS's for Express is cumbersome,
but if they keep it free, can we really complain? As a professional
developer who sometimes does independent work, I can't afford MSDN
Subscription but need VS Pro. so for me I can still work with the integrated
tools, but I pay.

I think they should check the competition, Eclipse just released a new
version, NetBeans is coming out with a new version soon and the current one,
except for Web Services support, is a TKO.

> Hi Hareth,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> I think orcas will reduce 100% coding. I think so. Please correct me if i am wrong. As i foresee, in visual studio 2005, things are much easier and
less coding. This is amazing.

> When orcas comes in, no more developer but software architects. Coz everyone can do coding, but not everyone can design good system.
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> > >
> > > Hareth
Ed Kaim [MSFT] - 06 Jul 2004 00:07 GMT
Think of it this way:

Visual Studio 2005 ("Whidbey") is intended to provide the best development
environment for the .NET Framework 2.0.

Visual Studio "Orcas" builds upon Visual Studio 2005 to provide improvements
for developers building applications for Longhorn. This is due to the fact
that the .NET Framework 2.0 is basically the core programmability engine at
the core of WinFX, the primary API set for Longhorn.

The reason Microsoft has posted this roadmap material is in response to
customer requests for more transparency. For example, we will launch Visual
Studio 2005 in early 2005. However, since Longhorn is due to launch less
than 2 years later, there is concern over whether Microsoft would launch a
new Visual Studio and obsolete the 2005 release. By providing this
transparency, the goal at hand is to be clear to developers that 2005 is the
next version and the foundation for the version to follow.

By comparison, other tool vendors don't generally plan this far out. As a
result, the typical enterprise that makes a developer tools/platform
decision every 3-5 years doesn't have a good idea about where these tools
will be during that time.

I wouldn't put much stock in the rumors regarding CASE and fully graphical
development. Although there are a lot of places where boilerplate coding can
be cut out to save time, the fact is that tools won't be able to completely
eliminate manual coding anytime soon. If you take a look at products like
BizTalk you can see where manual integration coding has been eliminated
(partially thanks to standards like Web services and  practices like SOA).
Other places where coding has been reduced revolves around UI and typical
boilerplate stuff, and the 70% code reduction ASP.NET 2.0 introduces over
ASP.NET 1.1 is an example of how that gets better. However, sophisticated
applications (which all are at some level or another) will still require
hands-on effort from developers for the forseeable future.

> In the Navy, we had a saying regarding opinions... :)
>
[quoted text clipped - 88 lines]
>> > >
>> > > Hareth

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