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.NET Forum / .NET Framework / Security / January 2006

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user authentication without iis

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the.duckman@gmail.com - 31 Jan 2006 10:27 GMT
Hi,

Im setting up a win32 based client/server aplication in C#. (Not a
webservice)

The server (a pc) must perfrom an action when the client (pc or pocket
pc device) sends it a message via TCP/IP communication.

Because of company policy I can not use IIS. So I must do my own user
authentication to ensure the server is comunicating with a genuine
client.

I setup a server side remoting object to act as a comunications
channel, The object is a kinda message queue. Clients enque to it,
server dequeues from it.

The clients use Activator.GetObject to hook up with the server and send
messages to the sso(server side object).

The server monitors the sso and when a command is available it deques
it and performs the command it dequeues.

My question is how can I secure this so that only a client with correct
username/password can create messages which will be acepted by the
server. The idea is that each message has some challange response setup
so that people can't impersonate the client.

The message also needs to be securly authenticated so that the server
can recognise if the message it recived was altered in any way since it
left the client.

Every article I read says use IIS, but I'm not allowed to .... I tried
to find a C# implementation of kerberos v5 or something but no luck.

I could set up my own challange response system using tokens, hashing,
salt ect, but I feel that it would be much better to adopt a tried and
tested solution.

Any pointers or  sugestions?
Dominick Baier [DevelopMentor] - 31 Jan 2006 10:44 GMT
Hi,

.NET 2.0 supports Kerberos/NTLM for Remoting.

In 1.1 you are out of luck.

---------------------------------------
Dominick Baier - DevelopMentor
http://www.leastprivilege.com

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Any pointers or  sugestions?
the.duckman@gmail.com - 31 Jan 2006 13:17 GMT
Thanks,

I am unfamiliar with .NET 2.0 atm.

Regarding the kerberos in  the remoting for .net 2.0 can I use my own
username/password list (prefered) or does it use the local machiene /
domain server user/password list?

I might be tempted to port the app too version 2.0 to solve this. (It's
about 50,000 lines of code atm, so not rushing of to do this just
yet...).

I probably deserve a good rtfm for this, but I can't find anything on
MSDN that talks about new kerbos stuff in .net 2.0. All I can find is
stuff about Kerberos/NTLM in remoting via SSL via IIS in .Net v 1.1.

Would you have a URL or book reverence where I can find out more?

Also I have been reading Into System.Messaging (msmq) It seems to
implement some form of authentication (windows user name based?) I
think it looks like a possible solution to my problem, but I can't find
.NET compact support. Also I think I can't attach BLOB's in the
messages.

Again I'm Jst hunting for Ideas / sugestion's.

-dm
Dominick Baier [DevelopMentor] - 31 Jan 2006 15:10 GMT
Hi,

> Regarding the kerberos in  the remoting for .net 2.0 can I use my own
> username/password list (prefered) or does it use the local machiene /
> domain server user/password list?

both.

http://www.leastprivilege.com/SecureRemoting.aspx
http://pluralsight.com/wiki/default.aspx/Keith.GuideBook/HowToAddCIAToDotNETRemo
ting.html


this is all based on the new NegotiateStream class in .NET 2.0
ms-help://MS.MSDNQTR.v80.en/MS.MSDN.v80/MS.NETDEVFX.v20.en/cpref10/html/T_System_Net_Security_NegotiateStream_Members.htm

---------------------------------------
Dominick Baier - DevelopMentor
http://www.leastprivilege.com

> Thanks,
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> -dm
the.duckman@gmail.com - 31 Jan 2006 16:16 GMT
Ok Im no securty expert (as you could guess).

But according to msdns page I just found NegotiateStream uses the SSPI
interface to perform authentication. I am under the (possibly
misguided) impression that SSPI needes IIS to be installed serverside
to operate. Please say I'm wrong...

Idealy I would like to remove microsoft from the equation at this
point.

I dream of a secured API for tcp/ip comunication that was available on
varius platforms (win, mac, linux, winCE) which has inbuit kerberos
support (or similar) and can maintain a user/ password file server side
(that is still secure if stolen). Kinda like programatical ssh.

Does such a thing exist.

-dm
Dominick Baier [DevelopMentor] - 31 Jan 2006 16:25 GMT
Hi,

no IIS needed - IIS also uses SSPI...that's where the confusion may come
from..

sure - use SSH - there is a .net library for it (commercial - you have to
google for it - haven't tried it)

---------------------------------------
Dominick Baier - DevelopMentor
http://www.leastprivilege.com

> Ok Im no securty expert (as you could guess).
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> -dm
Dominick Baier [DevelopMentor] - 31 Jan 2006 16:26 GMT
Hi,

ah - and btw - if the server implements Kerberos V5 - NegotiateStream should
work as a client, regardless of the server OS/vendor

---------------------------------------
Dominick Baier - DevelopMentor
http://www.leastprivilege.com

> Ok Im no securty expert (as you could guess).
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> -dm
the.duckman@gmail.com - 31 Jan 2006 16:33 GMT
Just found 2 opensource c# ssh libraries...

I'm a happy camper now.

http://www.routrek.co.jp/en/product/varaterm/granados.html
http://www.tamirgal.com/home/dev.aspx?Item=sharpSsh

Thanks for the help mate.

-dm

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