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.NET Forum / Languages / C# / September 2007

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Certification

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cypher_key - 08 Sep 2007 12:19 GMT
I've currently started my MCAD certification. I'm wondering, however,
if it would be a better idea to take the MCTS for the 2.0 framework
instead. I realize I can upgrade from a MCAD to a MCPD, but I'm
wondering which route would be best.

I should be noted that I'm not looking to become a developer. I simply
want to compliment my existing knowledge, which involves a lot of
scripting, with some additional programming knowledge. I'm mostly
looking to learn the language.

thanks,

Aaron
Thorsten Dittmar - 08 Sep 2007 13:09 GMT
Hi,

a) what's the point in becoming MCAD (Microsoft Certified Application
DEVELOPER) when you don't want to become a developer? If you just want
to learn the language, it's probably cheaper to just buy book...

b) MCAD covers .net 1.1, there are MCTS certifications for .net 2.0.
Depends on what you want. As I understand it, MCTS certification does
NOT automatically include MCAD.

c) MCAD != MCPD. MCSD = MCPD

Thorsten
Doug Semler - 08 Sep 2007 14:20 GMT
> Hi,
>
> a) what's the point in becoming MCAD (Microsoft Certified Application
> DEVELOPER) when you don't want to become a developer? If you just want
> to learn the language, it's probably cheaper to just buy book...

Hell yeah, especially since the tests are $125 each and you need (IIRC) to
PASS three of them to get the cert (or was it 4?).

Besides, you'll have a tough time passing the tests if you don't already
know the language (hell, the preface of the study books even states that it
is assumed that the language is known.)

> b) MCAD covers .net 1.1, there are MCTS certifications for .net 2.0.
> Depends on what you want. As I understand it, MCTS certification does
> NOT automatically include MCAD.

Correct.  the MCTS certifications are the "base" certs for the MCPD
series...And there are 3 MCTS Certs: Windows apps, Web Apps, and Distributed
Apps.

> c) MCAD != MCPD. MCSD = MCPD

Not quite true...MCAD = MCPD (Windows Apps) or MCPD (Web Apps) with one
upgrade test
MCSD = MCPD (Enterprise Apps) with a couple upgrade tests
MCAD = MCPD (Enterprise Apps) with 1 upgrade test and 2(id think) additional
tests

My MCAD was upgraded to MCPD (Windows Apps) by taking 1 test.

Signature

Doug Semler, MCAD, MCPD
a.a. #705, BAAWA.  EAC Guardisan of the Horn of the IPU (pbuhh).
The answer is 42; DNRC o-
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erpbtavmrf fvzcyr guvatf yvxr ebg13 nalzber. Fnq, vfa'g vg?

Thorsten Dittmar - 09 Sep 2007 07:39 GMT
Hi,

>> c) MCAD != MCPD. MCSD = MCPD
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> My MCAD was upgraded to MCPD (Windows Apps) by taking 1 test.

Well, I'm on the MCPD path currently, leaving out the MCAD. A collegue
of mine is MCAD and the upgrade test for MCAD to MCPD covers a section
that contains the same topics as the MCAD to MCSD exam. I don't know the
upgrade path for MCSD to MCPD but I'd assume that only new .net 2.0
stuff is covered, while MCAD to MCPD also covers a completely new topic.

However, that's not really the question here ;-)

The point is: I wouldn't have EVER passed the tests if I hadn't had a
very solid knowledge of the .net Framework - so just to LEARN about the
.net Framework, taking the tests is not a very good option...

Doug Semler schrieb:

>> Hi,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> My MCAD was upgraded to MCPD (Windows Apps) by taking 1 test.
cypher_key - 10 Sep 2007 00:43 GMT
Thank you all for your responses. One of the reason that I'm looking
at certification is that I might as well get something out of learning
the language. Adding it to my resume definitely won't hurt. I am not
interested in taking the exam crams and all of that. I do really want
to learn the language. What might be better is to learn the language
by some other means and then seek certification at a later point in
time.

So in the groups opinion, what are good sources of information for
simply learning the language?
Frankie - 10 Sep 2007 04:42 GMT
RE:
<< what are good sources of information for simply learning the language? >>

Roll your sleeves up and write some code... no better learning tool IMHO. If
you don't have a "real world" project, then make one up. Make it real
simple, then once the simplistic version works make it more sophisticated as
you go up the learning curve.

If you want a working model, then search for ".NET reference applications" -
these are full-blown applications meant to be disected and studied. They
come with full source code, VS project, and documentation (beyond code
comments, which are usually plentiful). I think Infragistics has a good one
for Windows Client apps (free), and Vertigo software did a bunch for
ASP.NET, complete with shopping carts, time trackers, etc.

-HTH

-F

> Thank you all for your responses. One of the reason that I'm looking
> at certification is that I might as well get something out of learning
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> So in the groups opinion, what are good sources of information for
> simply learning the language?
Alberto Poblacion - 08 Sep 2007 13:14 GMT
> I've currently started my MCAD certification. I'm wondering, however,
> if it would be a better idea to take the MCTS for the 2.0 framework
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> scripting, with some additional programming knowledge. I'm mostly
> looking to learn the language.

   If you are mostly looking to learn the language, forget about
certification. The certification exams ask mainly about the Framework
Libraries and development environment in general. They contain virtually
nothing about the language itself.
Smithers - 08 Sep 2007 15:50 GMT
> I've currently started my MCAD certification. I'm wondering, however,
> if it would be a better idea to take the MCTS for the 2.0 framework
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Aaron

I would second Alberto P's comment that the certifications will not help you
learn the language, itself. However, I suspect you really mean that you are
wanting to learn "how to program in .NET using C# as your language of
choice." Even if that's not what you really meant, it should be :-) because
much of what you'll be doing is leveraging the .NET Framework. It's more
reasonable for anyone programming in .NET to consider themselves as "a .NET
programmer" rather than a "C# programmer" or "<insert .NET language here>
programmer." Once you learn how the Framework hangs together and get
proficient in one .NET language, it's a matter of days to get productive
with another .NET language.

But back to your question... reading a bit into your question you seem to be
wanting to focus your efforts on "in the trenches" development efforts (as
opposed to design and architecture issues). Given that, I'd suggest going
for the MCTS for 2.0. I recently passed 70-536, and suspect that it covers
the sorts of topics you are looking to gain more knowledge on. Back that
MCTS effort up with some real projects and you'll certainly be on your way.

Finally, you'll probably get bunch of responses here from folks who will
totally downplay the whole certification process - or even tell you that it
will be an utter waste of your time and that you shouldn't even try to get
certified (Mark Rae comes to mind on that one). As those viewpoints come in,
consider that they are mostly correct - ASSUMING that they are addressing
the perception that certification makes you an expert in the subject matter,
or that you have cheated in order to pass the exams. The certification
process certainly won't make you an expert. If you, however, are looking to
the certification process to help you learn the landscape of topics beyond
what you would encounter during your day-to-day life, then go for it. It
also gives you *some* reference point for how well you have prepared for the
exam - which hopefully correlates with what you know about the subject
matter. Unfortunately that correlation often isn't very high, as the exams
frequently fail to measure a whole bunch of stuff that you *do* know what is
within the subject matter domain... and some of the questions are outright
bad - meaning that they cannot possibly do a good job of measuring what they
are supposed to be measuring.

Bottom line, IMHO, is that anyone can benefit from the certification process
provided that (1) they don't believe it will make them into an expert; (2)
don't take your exam score seriously - AT ALL - whether you pass, fail,
score high, or score low; and (3) understand that 99% of the benefit of the
certification process is the time you spend preparing for the exams -
PROVIDED that you don't simply cheat and memorize the real exam questions
available at the so called "brain dumps" web sites. That is, the benefit is
mostly in honest preparation by using the exam preparation guides as simply
a list of topics you should focus your attention on - culminating in a
passing score which, again, will be mostly meaningless at the end of the
day. FWIW, I have passed 17 Microsoft certification exams (resulting in MCSD
in both COM and .NET, MCAD, MCSE, MCSA, MCDBA with both SQL Server 7 and
2000 exams), and I have an academic background in psychometrics. Based in my
personal experience I can tell you that all those certs certainly do NOT
equate to expertise - that only comes with real-world experience.

-S

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