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.NET Forum / ASP.NET / General / March 2008Getting Started with Ajax
I'd like to start working with Ajax in VS 2008 Pro., but it's important that I not use anything that is not standard with VS 2008 Pro. (with all installation options selected). Does anyone have suggestions of good resources I can check out that keep the extras separate from the standard VS product? -Scott I have not yet moved to Visual Studio 2008 or .NET 3.0, so I have really done any searching, but here are the three things that I would try: 1. I don't think it is out quite yet, but an author that writes wonderful ASP.NET books and seems to like AJAX is Stephen Walther (http://www.superexpert.com/Books/AspNet2Unleashed/Default.aspx). I expect that in the near future he will be writing a book named ASP.NET 3.0 Unleashed. Or, if you would prefer not to wait, you can buy a different book on ASP.NET 3.0. 2. Search the MSDN Library using the word AJAX (I'm not sure what this will return, because Microsoft often refers to what we call AJAX as client callbacks). 3. I'm guessing you have already tried this, but I would try looking for a site that lists the changes between ASP.NET 2.0 and ASP.NET 3.0. Somewhere on one of the pages there you should be able to find the namespaces involved with the AJAX of ASP.NET 3.0 (I believe Microsoft has a page that lists the changes between 2.0 and 3.0)  SignatureNathan Sokalski njsokalski@hotmail.com http://www.nathansokalski.com/ > I'd like to start working with Ajax in VS 2008 Pro., but it's important > that I not use anything that is not standard with VS 2008 Pro. (with all [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -Scott Thanks Nathan, but I am looking for concrete references that meet my needs. I know where I can search for online stuff and these mostly come back with references to VS 2005 and the Ajax Toolkit, which is why I posted the particular question I did. >I have not yet moved to Visual Studio 2008 or .NET 3.0, so I have really >done any searching, but here are the three things that I would try: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >> -Scott > I'd like to start working with Ajax in VS 2008 Pro., but it's important > that I not use anything that is not standard with VS 2008 Pro. (with all > installation options selected). > > Does anyone have suggestions of good resources I can check out that keep > the extras separate from the standard VS product? can't you just stick to what's in your VS08 Pro install? or did you already install some Ajax "extras" ? if you need to keep things like this absolutely separated you might consider using a virtual machine ... I don't think you've understood my question. I want to just stick to what's in my 2008 install, that's the whole point of my question. No, I did not install any Ajax extras and I don't want to do that. It's not a matter of keeping things separated, I need to find resources on how to use what is installed by default, as adding extras is not an option in my business environment. >> I'd like to start working with Ajax in VS 2008 Pro., but it's important >> that I not use anything that is not standard with VS 2008 Pro. (with all [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > if you need to keep things like this absolutely separated you might > consider using a virtual machine ... > as adding extras is not an option in my business environment. Even if those extras are partially written by (and fully approved by) Microsoft, and specifically designed to be added into VS.NET...? http://www.codeplex.com/AtlasControlToolkit SignatureMark Rae ASP.NET MVP http://www.markrae.net Yes. >> as adding extras is not an option in my business environment. > > Even if those extras are partially written by (and fully approved by) > Microsoft, and specifically designed to be added into VS.NET...? > http://www.codeplex.com/AtlasControlToolkit >>> as adding extras is not an option in my business environment. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yes. Well, best of luck to you, then - you're really going to need it... Why are you not writing your apps in Notepad, AAMOI...? SignatureMark Rae ASP.NET MVP http://www.markrae.net Gee thanks for the help Mark. I didn't know that asking a question about the default features of VS 2008 would warrant such a response. Did it ever occur to you that sometimes development is done in environments that are dictated by the Enterprise and that developers are not free to just add new software because someone in a newsgroup told them to? >>>> as adding extras is not an option in my business environment. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Why are you not writing your apps in Notepad, AAMOI...? > Gee thanks for the help Mark. I didn't know that asking a question about > the default features of VS 2008 would warrant such a response. Did it > ever occur to you that sometimes development is done in environments that > are dictated by the Enterprise and that developers are not free to just > add new software because someone in a newsgroup told them to? There's a world of difference from installing some 3rd-party add-on that you've found on tucows and installing a companion toolkit made by Microsoft specifically to be used in conjunction with another Microsoft product... You, as a developer, are being prevented from developing the best solution because you are not allowed (by someone who clearly hasn't the remotest understanding of any of this) to use the tools specifically designed for the job... That would be akin to preventing XP users from installing the latest service pack because it didn't come with the original release... SignatureMark Rae ASP.NET MVP http://www.markrae.net >> Gee thanks for the help Mark. I didn't know that asking a question about >> the default features of VS 2008 would warrant such a response. Did it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Microsoft specifically to be used in conjunction with another Microsoft > product... No Mark there isn't. If I am not allowed by company policy to add any additional software to my workstation image, then I'm not allowed to install any additional software to the image, period. > You, as a developer, are being prevented from developing the best solution > because you are not allowed (by someone who clearly hasn't the remotest [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That would be akin to preventing XP users from installing the latest > service pack because it didn't come with the original release... Mark, this is all besides the point of my post. Clearly, you have no information regarding my question. Thanks for your time, but you really aren't helping. There are a multitude of reasons for why I need to develop without any additional software (too many too list here) and they are all for good reasons that work in the environment I'm in. I'm not asking for your to "review" that environment or the people who've made the decisions for it. If you know of any good resources about the use of Ajax out of the VS 2008 box, then I welcome those comments. -Scott re: !> I didn't know that asking a question about the default !> features of VS 2008 would warrant such a response. This is not a VS 2008 discussion group. It's an ASP.NET discussion group. re: !> If you know of any good resources about the use of Ajax !> out of the VS 2008 box, then I welcome those comments. I'll ask again : Aren't there enough resources about the use of Ajax in the VS 2008 "Help" ? If you think there aren't enough resources in VS 2008's help, maybe posting your comments in http://forums.asp.net/1112.aspx, or in http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/default.aspx?ForumGroupID=153&SiteID=1 would help. The VS 2008 team monitors those fora. They don't monitor this discussion group. Remember that VS 2008 hasn't been released to the general public yet, so it will take some time before bloggers/websites have ample info about "Ajax in VS 2008". Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/ foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/ ====================================== >>> Gee thanks for the help Mark. I didn't know that asking a question about the default features of VS 2008 would >>> warrant such a response. Did it ever occur to you that sometimes development is done in environments that are [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > -Scott >I don't think you've understood my question. I want to just stick to >what's in my 2008 install, that's the whole point of my question. No, I >did not install any Ajax extras and I don't want to do that. It's not a >matter of keeping things separated, I need to find resources on how to use >what is installed by default, as adding extras is not an option in my >business environment. yeah, I understood your question, which emphasized NOT ADDING anything more than what the full VS Pro 2008 provides; in particular, you wanted to know how to "keep the extras separate from the standard VS product," so my answer was, essentially, "don't add anything and do your work" -- OR -- if you want to fool around with extras, do it in a VM now it turns out you just want some info, tip and tricks on the AJAX tools in the base install ... people don't generally write articles and books tailored to anyone's particular configuration or their IT department policy ... you read what's available and discard the stuff you can't use because you don't have it installed ... and there is MS documentation >>> I'd like to start working with Ajax in VS 2008 Pro., but it's important >>> that I not use anything that is not standard with VS 2008 Pro. (with all [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> if you need to keep things like this absolutely separated you might >> consider using a virtual machine ... I don't know who's post you've read Barry, but it wasn't mine. Your latest reply is still not relevant to my question. I never said I wanted to "keep the extras separate from the standard VS product", what I said was "but it's important that I not use anything that is not standard with VS 2008 Pro." - that is very different. I do not and cannot install anything beyond what is standard with VS 2008. This is not a "particular configuration" question. It's a question about the standard installation you get with VS 2008. If you've read my posts, then you've read that it's going to be pretty hard to take your advice about discarding what I can't use, since all the material I've found I can't use. >>I don't think you've understood my question. I want to just stick to >>what's in my 2008 install, that's the whole point of my question. No, I [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> if you need to keep things like this absolutely separated you might >>> consider using a virtual machine ... Isn't the documentation included with VS 2008 exact enough for your purposes ? The VS docs should have updated information as to what you can, or cannot use. Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/ foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/ ====================================== >I don't know who's post you've read Barry, but it wasn't mine. Your latest reply is still not relevant to my question. >I never said I wanted to "keep the extras separate from the standard VS product", what I said was "but it's important [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>>> >>>> if you need to keep things like this absolutely separated you might consider using a virtual machine ... Hi Scott, The core functions of ASP.NET AJAX is now built-in in .NET Framework 3.5. To get additional ready-to-use AJAX enabled controls, you might need Ajax Control Toolkit which is released under Microsoft Permissive License and is always a separate download. ScottGu's blog has more information on this: #ASP.NET AJAX in .NET 3.5 and VS 2008 - ScottGu's Blog http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/07/30/asp-net-ajax-in-net-3-5-an d-vs-2008.aspx Hope this helps. Regards, Walter Wang (wawang@online.microsoft.com, remove 'online.') Microsoft Online Community Support ================================================== When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so that others may learn and benefit from your issue. ================================================== This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. Hi Walter, I appreciate your response, but I'm not looking for information on the additional Ajax controls, in fact, quite the contrary. I'm looking for good Ajax documentation that talks about only what is available in VS 2008/3.5 by default and NOT anything beyond that. As the replies to this post show, this information is tough to find. Everywhere I look, the documentation talks about the extra controls or the Ajax Toolkit, which I'm not interested in. Thanks, Scott > Hi Scott, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no > rights. > Everywhere I look, the documentation talks about the extra controls or the > Ajax Toolkit, which I'm not interested in. maybe that should tell you something, Scott ... What Barry? Spit it out already? Instead of giving me some kind of attitude about what I "should" be doing and what I "could" install separately, perhaps you could be constructive and try to understand my simple requirement is that I cannot install anything beyond what is included by default with VS 2008. What is so terribly difficult to understand about that? This is not some "custom" configuration we're talking about. >> Everywhere I look, the documentation talks about the extra controls or >> the Ajax Toolkit, which I'm not interested in. > > maybe that should tell you something, Scott ... > What is so terribly difficult to understand about that? Because it's unbelievably short-sighted... The AJAX Control Toolkit is specifically designed to be an add-on to Visual Studio.NET to make development of AJAX solutions easier - how on earth can that possibly be a bad thing...? What about Web Deployment Projects? Are you not "allowed" to use those either...? SignatureMark Rae ASP.NET MVP http://www.markrae.net >> What is so terribly difficult to understand about that? > > Because it's unbelievably short-sighted... Perhaps, but it's not my decision to make and it is counter prodcutive to tell me what I "should" install when I've already told you that I can't. > The AJAX Control Toolkit is specifically designed to be an add-on to > Visual Studio.NET to make development of AJAX solutions easier - how on > earth can that possibly be a bad thing...? I don't know, but as I've said repeatedly, it's not within my control, so the point is mute. > What about Web Deployment Projects? Are you not "allowed" to use those > either...? No, as a matter of fact, I'm not since all deployment is done via Tivoli pushes. >>> What is so terribly difficult to understand about that? >> >> Because it's unbelievably short-sighted... > > Perhaps, but it's not my decision to make and it is counter prodcutive to > tell me what I "should" install when I've already told you that I can't. Then I would respectfully suggest that you find another job ASAP, as whoever has imposed this laughable restriction on you is seriously hindering your career... SignatureMark Rae ASP.NET MVP http://www.markrae.net > Then I would respectfully suggest that you find another job ASAP, as > whoever has imposed this laughable restriction on you is seriously > hindering your career... With all respect (and the last bit of my patience) Mark, you don't know me. You don't know what I'm working on and you don't know what my job is. You have no idea what my career involves. In short, there's a lot you don't know. I'm not a novice. I have very good reasons for working in the environment that I do. To explain them would take a significant amount of time and even if I did, it is irrelevant to my question or the answer that is out there somewhere. You've provided nothing that comes close to information that I've requested. I'm pretty sure the title of my post was NOT "Please help me understand what the development environment I'm working in should be so that my carrer won't be hindered." I'm asking a very simple question about the "out of the box" VS 2008 capabilities. This is not a "special situation" or "special configuration" that warrants some "special" consideration. It's obvious you don't have any information relating to what I've asked. That's fine, but please stop interjecting unwelcomed irrelevant diatribe that does not relate to my post. -Scott Maybe instead of complaining about not being able to use the add ons, you should try to explain to your boss that they are not a bad thing. I'm sure that once he understands how useful they are and how much more efficient the result will be, he'll let you install them. If you are not allowed to use all this knowledge you have, why are you still working for these guys? SignatureNathan Sokalski njsokalski@hotmail.com http://www.nathansokalski.com/ >>> What is so terribly difficult to understand about that? >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > No, as a matter of fact, I'm not since all deployment is done via Tivoli > pushes. Scott, you're being a jerk; I and several other people have made sincere, honest efforts to provide some useful input and all you do is whine about nobody understanding your question / requirements / sad state of affairs I don't care which way you use AJAX or for that matter, whether you ever use AJAX ... the point here is that you since you can't find anything on point for your unique requirements (and apparently nobody else can either), what you might deduce is that there's not a lot of commercial interest in your requirements: there is no 1500 page book on the market entitled, "AJAX Unleashed: The Visual Studio 2008 Standard Toolkit." Get over it. Tell the idiots imposing all the constraints on your work that they need to provide you with some resources; presumably THEY understand your question. BW > What Barry? Spit it out already? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> maybe that should tell you something, Scott ... Please see my replies to Mark. And, please re-read your posts to see who has been what and to whom. Happy Holidays > Scott, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> >>> maybe that should tell you something, Scott ... > Please see my replies to Mark. And, please re-read your posts to see who > has been what and to whom. this is what I see: ------------------------------- Scott M. -- 12-08-2007 10:27am Does anyone have suggestions of good resources I can check out that keep the extras separate from the standard VS product? Barrie Wilson -- 12-10-2007 11:30am you wanted to know how to "keep the extras separate from the standard VS product," Scott M -- 12-10-2007 2:00pm I never said I wanted to "keep the extras separate from the standard VS product" ----------------------------- you got the picture yet, Scott? ... that's why I've had enough of this petulant, self-absorbed nonsense BW Then you obviously don't comprehend English Bruce. I did not say that I wanted to keep the extra features separate, as you say, I said I wanted resources that keep the extras separate. Now, you can sling insults all you want, but that doesn't change the simple question I asked and the fact that you haven't provided anything that resembles an answer to it. >> Please see my replies to Mark. And, please re-read your posts to see who >> has been what and to whom. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > BW Sorry, got the name wrong. It's Barrie that has not understood English, been rude, and of no help. My apologies to the Bruces out there. > Then you obviously don't comprehend English Bruce. I did not say that I > wanted to keep the extra features separate, as you say, I said I wanted [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >> BW > Then you obviously don't comprehend English Bruce. I did not say that I > wanted to keep the extra features separate, as you say, I said I wanted > resources that keep the extras separate. which means what, Scott? what kind of "resources" would "keep the extras separate?" ... now think about that; you have a bit of trouble with the concept of ambiguity and even more difficulty with precision of expression ... a VM would "keep the extras separate" in terms of physical and functional isolation, so I mentioned it to you ... the MS documentation provides coverage of the classes provided in the VS 2008 Pro installation, and I pointed THAT out ... finally, I pointed out that authors don't generally tailor their coverage of a topic to cover particular configurations, which most people of reasonable inteligence would take as a suggestion that you're unlikely to find tutorial or documentary "resources" catering to your apparent inability to ignore material not applicable to your particular requirements and circumstances so, Scottie, in response to your ambiguous question I basically covered the whole waterfront to compensate for your articulation deficit; in return I received a snappy, snotty answer ... you were expecting what in turn? a Christmas Card? > Now, you can sling insults all you want, but that doesn't change the > simple question I asked and the fact that you haven't provided anything > that resembles an answer to it. Scottie, call Mommy and Daddy ... you know, the folks who filled you up with so much self-esteem you've come to believe the Earth revolves around you ... and don't beam me up ... BW PS: since you apparently take great pride in your facility with the language, let me help you out here: when a point has been voided of signifiance or relevance, it has become "moot" ... not "mute," as you previously wrote in this thread ... and we know it wasn't a typo, so don't even think about going there ... A "resource" does not refer to software. It refers to reference material to read and look at. That simple point has escaped you. VM's are completely and totally irrelevant, yet you persist with them. And, thanks for responding to my question about what part of "but it's important that I not use anything that is not standard with VS 2008 Pro." Clearly, you just want to pick on someone, to the point of calling them names and being just rude without provocation. Good luck with that (you can now go back to beating your wife and/or kids). >> Then you obviously don't comprehend English Bruce. I did not say that I >> wanted to keep the extra features separate, as you say, I said I wanted [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > previously wrote in this thread ... and we know it wasn't a typo, so don't > even think about going there ... > A "resource" does not refer to software. previously I only *thought* you were incapable of effective communication; now I know it ... get a dictionary and enjoy your work with AJAX > It refers to reference material to read and look at. That simple point > has escaped you. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >> previously wrote in this thread ... and we know it wasn't a typo, so >> don't even think about going there ... And, what part of "but it's important that I not use anything that is not standard with VS 2008 Pro." did you not understand? It's obvious that you are just going on the offensive here because you have no defense. You screwed up and posted a reply that has no bearing on the question and you would rather call people names than be of any genuine help. It was a simple enough question. >> Please see my replies to Mark. And, please re-read your posts to see who >> has been what and to whom. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > BW Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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