.NET Forum / ASP.NET / General / July 2005
ASP or ASP.NET
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Placek - 17 Jul 2005 20:12 GMT Hi there I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to get as many opinions as I can.
The situation is that I am a student just about to start on my dissertation, which is going to be a website that queries a database. I researched all the different methods of doing it (eg Java servlets, C) and decided on ASP. I bought a book and decided to install XP Pro as it has the latest IIS version.
Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this true? Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months learning and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?
Thanks in advance Martin
Mark Rae - 17 Jul 2005 20:22 GMT > Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this > true? If not now, it soon will be...
> Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months > learning > and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET? Yes. ASP.NET is as different from ASP as VB.NET is from VB - there's no point learning ASP and hoping that, somehow, it will fast-track you to ASP.NET. The issue is not the actual syntax, it's the .NET Framework which represents the learning curve.
Your PC runs some version of Windows, right? Are you considering learning DOS...?
Placek - 17 Jul 2005 20:45 GMT Thanks for the info, Mark. In answer to your question, my PC runs Windows 2000. I know a little DOS and was intending to learn enough to format and partition my hard drive etc. Why do you ask?
> > Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this > > true? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Your PC runs some version of Windows, right? Are you considering learning > DOS...? Mark Rae - 17 Jul 2005 23:05 GMT > Thanks for the info, Mark. In answer to your question, my PC runs Windows > 2000. I know a little DOS and was intending to learn enough to format and > partition my hard drive etc. Why do you ask? Where are you from, by the way...? Just wondering about the total irony bypass...
Placek - 18 Jul 2005 19:41 GMT I did wonder why on earth you were going on about DOS, but I understand the point you were making now.
> > Thanks for the info, Mark. In answer to your question, my PC runs Windows > > 2000. I know a little DOS and was intending to learn enough to format and > > partition my hard drive etc. Why do you ask? > > Where are you from, by the way...? Just wondering about the total irony > bypass... John Timney (ASP.NET MVP) - 17 Jul 2005 22:20 GMT It is not a dead language, it is simply not being developed further as asp.net is much more powerful.
You should spend your time learning asp.net, it will run fine on xp pro and you can develop with the SDK for free, or get a copy web developer express if you dont have vs.net. It will also help with your job prospects when you leave uni.
 Signature Regards
John Timney ASP.NET MVP Microsoft Regional Director
> Hi there > I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks in advance > Martin WJ - 17 Jul 2005 23:22 GMT There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at the end of 2005. It is free. You may try to wait for this. While waitting, you may want to download the beta version and try it out, click here: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/vcsharp/default.aspx. This product is very nice, MS also gives you a so called MS/SQL Express 2005, an RDBMS which works very nicely with VS.Net 2005. All these are free for beginners.
Do not learn ASP as other Ps have said. ASP is a legacy product, not very "secure" to begin with, that is why Asp.Net was born. Also you are buying Windows XP Pro, which is a smart thing to do. Windows 2000 OS is not secure either. Replace it as soon as you get the hold of XP Pro.
John
Juan T. Llibre - 17 Jul 2005 23:36 GMT re:
> There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at the end of > 2005. It is free. Huh ?
What ever gave you that idea ?
The *beta* is free. Visual Web Developer will cost $49 when released. It's going to be quite cheap, but not quite free.
All the other *Express* versions, VB.NET Express, C++ Express, C# Express, J# Express, will also cost $49.
Pricing info for the Express SKU's is at : http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/faq/
The cheapest VS.NET version is VS.NET "Standard", which will cost $299, and $199 for upgrades.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/editions/stdexp/
Juan T. Llibre ASP.NET MVP http://asp.net.do/foros/ Foros de ASP.NET en Español Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET... ======================
> There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at the end of > 2005. It is free. You may try to wait for this. While waitting, you may want to download [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > John WJ - 17 Jul 2005 23:52 GMT > re: >> There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out >> at the end of 2005. It is free. > > Huh ? Yep! I was not thinking while typing ! Got mixed up with Beta released. Thanks for the correction.
John Webb
John Timney (ASP.NET MVP) - 18 Jul 2005 10:59 GMT if I remember the exact phrase was it would be "competitively priced"
 Signature Regards
John Timney ASP.NET MVP Microsoft Regional Director
> re: >> There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >> >> John Juan T. Llibre - 18 Jul 2005 12:40 GMT I remember that phrase, too, but the linked page
>> Pricing info for the Express SKU's is at : >> http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/faq/ says :
"Our plan is to offer the Express products for $49 per product when they are released."
Of course, nobody has to stick to any "plan"... ;-)
Juan T. Llibre ASP.NET MVP http://asp.net.do/foros/ Foros de ASP.NET en Español Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET... ======================
> if I remember the exact phrase was it would be "competitively priced"
>> re: >>> There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at the end of [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >>> >>> John Kevin Spencer - 18 Jul 2005 15:10 GMT Hi Martin,
It's not really possible to answer your question authoritatively based on the information you've supplied. First, what is your dissertation about? In other words, are you studying programming, the Internet, databases, or what? Here's the reason I ask:
First, a dissertation is not a web site. Nor is a dissertation a database. Nor is a dissertation an application. So, I'm a bit confused from the beginning about what exactly your requirements are, and you haven't given us a clue as to what your course of study is in. So, we are left with practically no information as to what the purpose of this web application is, and what your reasons for creating it are.
What technology you employ to create your application is going to be determined by a number of factors. What are the requirements that drive the solution? What are the requirements for your dissertation? These are similar questions. For example, if your dissertation requires you to be a programmer, you would be best advised to learn programming. It is entirely possible to create a web application with almost no programming skills. So, if your dissertation does NOT require you to be a programmer, it would probably be a waste of your time to learn programming. Learning programming, and Internet programming in particular, is a daunting task, and I rather doubt that it can be accomplished to any degree of expertise in 6 months.
If the web application is peripheral to your dissertation, it would be best to stick with something simple. For example, you can use Micrsoft FrontPage to design a complete web site with database connectivity in a matter of several days to several weeks. You can get up and running with ASP in a bit longer than that, perhaps 6 months if you work hard at it. ASP.Net will take a lot of work and time to really get proficient at.
So, can you shed some light on exactly what this is for, what your course of study is, etc? Or am I correct in my suspicion that all college provides is the ability to sound intelligent by soliciting a lot of opinions and mimicking the most popular?
 Signature HTH,
Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP .Net Developer The sun never sets on the Kingdom of Heaven
> Hi there > I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks in advance > Martin Placek - 18 Jul 2005 20:43 GMT Hi Kevin Thanks for the info, I’m painfully aware that a database/website/code is not a dissertation. Last year I spent several months developing an application in VBA that did not meet the criteria. I’m keen not to make the same error.
I’ve already done some programming, database and web site stuff on my course and now I want to showcase these skills by building a web site that queries a database. I know this sounds vague but my main concern right now is what technology I use to build it. Thanks again Martin
> Hi Martin, > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Thanks in advance > > Martin Kevin Spencer - 18 Jul 2005 21:36 GMT Hi Martin,
I'm afraid you still have to be more specific in order to get an authoritative answer. You say that you main concern is what technology you use to build your database-driven web application. However, again, that is dependent upon the requirements for your dissertation. Assuming that you want to showcase some unspecified "skills," what skills do you want to showcase? You state that your VBA project last year did not meet "the criteria." What ARE the criteria?
Selecting a technology is not simply a matter of finding out what a bunch of worldwide strangers who may or may not have various skills and skill levels have to say, for whatever reasons they may have. That is hardly going to give you a worthy answer. For example, there are occasionally 12-year-olds who post in these newsgroups. There are people who know almost nothing about programming who post in these newsgroups. There are people who post in these newsgroups because they don't know what a newsgroup is, or simply to incite controversy. How do you know which advice is going to be good advice? In addition, you've already received a number of replies, none of which is based on any knowledge of what your requirements are. In other words, the advice given so far has been based upon the subjective like or dislike of a given technology, which is often of a "religious" nature. There is an old saying: "Consider the source." However, there is very little information about the sources you are seeking advice from. Any advice you receive based upon the lack of criteria you've provided is going to be unreliable.
So, how about giving us a clue as to what these mysterious criteria are? As I mentioned in my earlier reply, learning a web application technology takes a variable amount of time, partly due to the learning curve associated with that technology. It will take quite a while to learn ASP.Net, while ASP, which will be around for years to come, can be learned in a relatively short period of time. In either case, writing web applications is much more difficult than writing desktop applications. The user interface is HTML, which can be viewed on a variety of systems, using a variety of browsers, and with a variety of screen resolutions and window sizes. In addition, we're talking about a stateless HTTP environment. Memory management is one of the most difficult aspects of web application programming. You don't want to spend a year or more learning a technology which you may never use again. But we have no idea whether or not you intend to use it again.
So, in order to help you make a wise decision about your "main concern," we need more information about your personal requirements and reasons for needing to use one of these technologies.
 Signature HTH,
Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP .Net Developer The sun never sets on the Kingdom of Heaven
> Hi Kevin > Thanks for the info, I'm painfully aware that a database/website/code is [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] >> > Thanks in advance >> > Martin DonkeySpank - 26 Jul 2005 14:49 GMT I'd go for ASP.NET every time.
> Hi there > I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to get [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Thanks in advance > Martin
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